Investing with High Rates, Stubborn Inflation, & Low Supply

Dave:
The actual property business has been altering quickly over the past couple of years. We’ve seen excessive rates of interest, hovering inflation, a constrained market, and the query is, what ought to buyers do? On this episode of Larger Information, we’re going to reply your entire burning listener questions in regards to the housing market and economic system. Hello buyers. I’m your host, Dave Meyer, and for this episode of Larger Information, we’re bringing again our very first greater information visitor method again. I believe it was like 2021 or 2022, however now we have Kathy Fettke becoming a member of us. In the event you don’t know Kathy, she’s the co-host of our sister podcast in the marketplace, and she or he is without doubt one of the most data-driven, knowledgeable buyers on the market. She extensively research and understands the economic system and housing market to assist her make her investing selections. In at this time’s episode, we’re gonna be bringing it again to our neighborhood to reply the questions that you simply all have in regards to the macroeconomic state of affairs and the housing market.
And I believe much more importantly, we’re gonna dive into what it’s best to do with that data, as a result of a number of occasions you could hear these stats or these figures within the information, but it surely’s onerous to know what does that imply for me and my private actual property portfolio. We’re gonna reply that for you all at this time. Earlier than we bounce into your questions, I simply wanna remind you all that in case you have a query that you really want answered both by the BiggerPockets neighborhood or on the present, you are able to do that. Simply go to biggerpockets.com/boards. It’s a very free method the place you’ll be able to have a few of your most essential burning investing questions answered. However that allow’s deliver on Kathy. Kathy, welcome again to Larger Information, our first ever visitor. It’s very nice to have you ever again on the present.

Kathy:
Oh, it’s so enjoyable to be right here. Thanks.

Dave:
Good. Nicely, I believe it’s applicable that now we have you right here for our first ever greater information person generated questions mashup right here. And now we have 4 or 5 actually good questions that I’m very excited to get your opinion on. The primary query is, why are rates of interest staying so excessive and what can buyers do to nonetheless get into the sport? So let’s simply begin with the primary a part of that query first, and let’s hear your tackle why rates of interest or mortgage charges particularly are staying increased than I believe lots of people thought they might be at this level in 2024.

Kathy:
Yeah, I imply, the way in which to sum it up, it’s a really difficult matter, proper? However the way in which I might sum it up is that that is the undoing of the stimulus from Covid. So when there’s any type of main shock to the economic system or like a pandemic or, uh, you realize, individuals not paying their mortgages like in 2008, then the federal government truly type of discovered in 2008, Hey, we will repair this downside by rising the cash provide, printing cash, creating wealth low-cost to borrow. They usually created this new factor, quantitative easing, the place they may additionally purchase mortgage backed securities. So years later, in 2020 when the pandemic hit, uh, the, the Fed determined, let’s do that once more. And, and acquired mortgage backed securities, numerous them to maintain charges low. It’s very manipulated the housing market in that regard. So then when the economic system mainly recovered and throughout recovered and really turned too sizzling, uh, they needed to pull all that again. So to only sum it up, they’re pulling again the stimulus that they did throughout COVID and a part of that’s promoting off these mortgage backed securities. In order that’s one motive. After which the opposite motive is the economic system’s simply been tremendous sizzling, you realize, tremendous sizzling in all probability from all that stimulus over covid.

Dave:
Thanks for offering that context, Kathy. And I simply wanna be certain everybody, uh, is following right here and understands. However mainly, mortgage charges depend upon a number of issues. The Federal Reserve and their present coverage is a kind of issues, they usually have indicated that they’re more likely to decrease their federal funds charge and that can put some downward stress on mortgage charges, however that hasn’t occurred but. However even when they do this, there are different issues exterior of Fed coverage that affect mortgage charges. One among them is bond yields. That’s in all probability a very powerful factor that we’re, that impacts mortgage charges and bond yields are staying increased than I believe lots of people have anticipated. And truly over the course of 2024, like the primary quarter, they’ve truly gone up. And in order that’s why we’ve seen mortgage charges begin to creep up somewhat bit.
After which the third factor is, what’s going on within the mortgage-backed securities market? While you exit and purchase a mortgage, uh, the financial institution doesn’t maintain onto that. They really normally wind up packaging it collectively, uh, with different mortgages and promote it to different buyers. That’s known as a mortgage backed safety. And when there’s a number of demand, when a number of buyers wanna purchase that stuff, mortgage charges are typically decrease. However when there’s not a number of demand for mortgage-backed securities banks have to supply increased rates of interest to these mortgage-backed safety buyers to entice them to exit and purchase them mortgages. And that is without doubt one of the issues that’s occurring proper now, is that there’s a lot of mortgage-backed securities hitting the market. There’s not sufficient demand for them, and that’s pushing costs up. So simply these issues collectively in all probability offer you an honest image of why mortgages are staying a bit increased than lots of people had been anticipating at this level within the yr. So Kathy, let’s truly swap gears now that we’ve answered that and discuss what buyers can do on this increased rate of interest surroundings to nonetheless get into the sport.

Kathy:
So I’ve been doing this for over 25 years, and one factor I can inform a brand new investor is actual property’s actually thrilling as a result of it’s by no means the identical. It’s at all times altering their cycles. And with every cycle you need to study a brand new technique. In order that’s all it’s at this time. Don’t, don’t freak out. That was a cycle of low rates of interest due to what we simply mentioned. And that meant, wow, you could possibly purchase lock in charges at actually low costs, you could possibly purchase extra and have a decrease fee. Uh, now it’s in fact modified. You’ve bought increased charges and that actually has lower out the competitors. So it is a totally different cycle. And earlier than, when charges had been low, there have been, there was numerous competitors. Now you don’t have that. So this offers you a greater likelihood to barter. Only a few years in the past, I, I do know at the least the place I’m from, you realize, in California there was no negotiation.
You made a proposal, you couldn’t even get inspections. Like, it’s like, no, I’ve bought 100 different individuals who need this property. You get what you get. It’s not like that at this time. So you could have extra alternative to barter. You possibly can take a look at properties which have been in the marketplace for for much longer. You possibly can negotiate with builders who’re sitting on stock they usually can’t promote it due to these rates of interest. So it’s only a totally different technique and it’s an excellent one. It’s an incredible one. I want it. I might quite negotiate with one particular person than need to struggle off 100 buyers or consumers. Proper?

Dave:
Completely. I I, I completely agree. And truly simply within the final couple of weeks I’ve seen even much less competitors. I don’t know if it’s as a result of mortgage charges have, like they had been hovering at like 6.8, 6.9, they’re now, they’re like a bit above seven and possibly there’s some psychological factor. We’re additionally beginning to see stock come in the marketplace and begin to tick again up. I personally, like actually within the final week or so, have began to note like loads higher stock. So uhhuh, um, that’s thrilling to me. And the opposite factor I simply, I take into consideration a excessive rate of interest surroundings is in fact there’s, there’s commerce offs, however I see one large profit in having increased rates of interest is that it’s form of this pressured self-discipline. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> as a result of it’s tougher to make offers pencil, however they nonetheless do. I don’t learn about you.
I’ve completed truly extra offers this yr than I did final yr. Sure. Um, and it forces you to be actually good at underwriting. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. After which if charges go down, which they in all probability will, I don’t know if that’s gonna be this yr, subsequent yr, two years from now, however your deal will in all probability simply get higher over the course of the following couple of years. So for those who discover a deal that’s good proper now, it may turn out to be nice. In the event you discover a deal that’s nice proper now, it’d turn out to be a house run. So it does make it somewhat bit tougher to determine that deal, however the efficiency of your deal would possibly truly be higher since you’re investing on this tougher surroundings. Alright, now we have to take a fast break, however as you realize, rates of interest aren’t the one burning query in your minds. So we’re gonna get into inflation, whether or not the development in the direction of working part-time is pushing us in the direction of a recession and if housing costs are these rattling millennials fault after the break. So stick round. Welcome again buyers. I’m right here with Kathy Fettke and we’re answering your questions in regards to the economic system and the housing market. So let’s bounce again in.

Kathy:
And I simply wanna add one factor, Dave. These aren’t, this isn’t a excessive rate of interest surroundings <chuckle>. That’s true. It’s, it’s increased than it was, however persons are are freaking out. Like we’re within the 20% vary or one thing. Six to 7% is regular, it’s common. We’re simply again to regular. However that’s complicated to individuals who had been having fun with not regular for some time, proper?

Dave:
<chuckle>? Completely. Yeah. In the event you, for those who look again to the, the early eighties, so, you realize, within the late seventies issues went loopy. Mortgage charges had been up at like 18%. In the event you take a look at, since that they got here again down, the long-term common is about 7% or six and alter, I believe. So, you realize, we’re again to that. I I do assume that we’ll in all probability see charges get all the way down to the low sixes, possibly excessive fives within the subsequent yr or two. Um, uh, however I believe, you realize, the period of three% could also be gone perpetually. I believe 4% is unlikely anytime quickly. And so we’re all gonna need to get used to this not directly. And naturally we’d wish to get the absolute best charge. Everybody needs to be making an attempt to get the, the absolute best charge. However, uh, I believe the earlier you’ll be able to regulate your techniques to this new actuality, the higher. As a result of that is actuality.

Kathy:
Yeah, it’s actuality. And you’ll negotiate the rate of interest. I simply bought a 4 and three quarter p.c rate of interest as a result of I’ve a stressed builder, pay that down for me. So that you’re not caught with these charges, you realize, and that’s a part of negotiation. It’s like, yeah, I’ll purchase this place that’s been in the marketplace, however you might want to put in some cash and pay down my charge.

Dave:
Wow. That’s a, that’s an incredible deal. Good for you <chuckle>. I’m, I’m pleased for you. You discovered that deal and uh, yeah, only a professional tip that, uh, builders are doing a number of buydown nonetheless even into 2024. Uh, it’s an excellent tip there. That’s form of an excellent transition. Now then to our second query, which is, uh, quote, with inflation considerations on the rise, how would possibly actual property buyers regulate their investing methods to hedge in opposition to potential inflationary pressures? So there’s a pair issues to this query. Lemme simply begin. Thi this, uh, particular person requested with inflation considerations on the rise, are your inflation considerations on the rise? Kathy?

Kathy:
No, inflation has been coming down steadily. So simply watch out of headlines. That’s my been my, like what I’ve been making an attempt to inform the world, like watch out of headlines as a result of inflation went up ever so barely these previous few months, but it surely’s down dramatically from the place it was. And for those who’re in building and we’re at actual wealth, we do a number of new, new builds, it has come down dramatically the place the numbers are making way more sense. Now. There may be inflation in insurance coverage. And that is only a, a rumour factor, however I spoke with somebody final night time who may be very near some higher stage individuals in insurance coverage and she or he mentioned, you realize, it’s gonna come round. It’s, they’re making up for losses and ultimately, and sooner or later insurance coverage charges will come down too. I don’t know if that’s right here, you realize, I don’t know if that’s true, however we, we infl, um, insurance coverage is unquestionably a problem, however in any other case general inflation’s been coming down. So no, not a priority for me presently. Yeah,

Dave:
I believe for me, I’m somewhat bit involved that inflation goes to remain at its present charge longer than we want. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. And only for context, the Fed has this goal that we gained’t get into it as considerably arbitrary. It was made up in New Zealand like within the nineties, and for some motive everybody, each nation on the earth simply follows this 2% goal. Um, however they wanna get to it, they wanna get to this 2% goal. And proper now we’re somewhat bit above 3% and I don’t personally have a number of worry that we’re gonna see a re-acceleration of inflation. You recognize, it’d fluctuate somewhat bit over the following few months, however I don’t assume we’re gonna see 4 or 5% anytime, um, within the subsequent yr or two. Um, my concern is that it’s gonna, that we would simply get caught the place we’re proper now and that signifies that the Fed is gonna preserve charges actually excessive and though they’re solely gonna do this if the economic system’s doing effectively, I do assume that that would have some long run implications for the housing market as a result of if the Fed retains charges excessive, if mortgage charges keep excessive, that doesn’t imply you’ll be able to’t make investments per our earlier dialog, however I do assume it’s gonna preserve stock actually locked up.
I believe that’s form of the important thing factor right here is that if mortgage charges keep excessive, we’re unlikely to see a breaking of the quote unquote lock in impact, which for those who’re unfamiliar mainly simply means lots of people don’t wanna promote their home proper now ’trigger they’ve these superb mortgage charges and who would wish to eliminate them <chuckle>. And so, uh, I believe that that’s form of one long-term, um, form of implication right here. So I, I don’t personally agree that there’s gonna be, uh, re-acceleration of inflation. However given, given this query and that inflation remains to be, you realize, round it’s increased than it was actually for the final decade or so, um, and fewer besides the previous few years, Kathy, like how do you account for inflation in your individual investing selections?

Kathy:
So as a result of now we have a scarcity of provide, that signifies that we’re in all probability going to proceed to see inflation in housing, which is nice for the proprietor of that asset. Not nice for those who’re making an attempt to get into it and purchase it ’trigger it’s gonna price extra, however as you maintain it over time, and for those who look traditionally for many years, uh, how, uh, actual property costs have gone up over time. So for me, inflation is nice for those who personal the asset. It’s actually onerous for those who don’t. And that, for my part is what separates the rich from those that are struggling.

Dave:
Yeah, I I imply I believe that the truth that this one that requested posed this query is considering actual property is the reply, proper? Like there’s all types of techniques inside actual property. Most of them are good inflation hedges over over time. Actual property has confirmed to be a wonderful hedge in opposition to inflation. So whether or not, you realize, Kathy and I are right and we’re gonna see inflation stick round form of considerably the place, the place it’s proper now or if this, uh, query the one who requested this query is right. And inflation does speed up both method. If actual property is an efficient technique to hedge in opposition to that inflation, uh, as a result of it’s a bodily asset and since even when the worth of the greenback will get additional diluted, the revenue incomes potential of bodily belongings stays comparatively comparable whatever the foreign money and the energy of that foreign money.
And so, um, that is without doubt one of the causes I really like investing in actual property, um, is as a result of it’s such an excellent inflation hedge. So I I believe don’t overthink it, purchase and maintain issues, you’ll be able to even flip homes in an inflationary surroundings. However for those who’re in actual property, you’re in all probability occupied with issues the precise method to deal with inflation. So the, the third query right here truly flows proper into this nice job to our producers. Uh, the query is about part-time work. It says {that a} document variety of People are selecting to work part-time regardless of a robust labor market. What does this say in regards to the American economic system? Are we getting into recessionary occasions? So have you ever heard this that persons are working extra part-time? I’ve

Kathy:
Heard this type of rumor operating round, however once more, I believe for those who simply take a look at demographics, it will make a number of sense. It’s nothing to be involved about. Um, you could have two extraordinarily massive demographic teams at this time. You have got the millennials, it’s the most important group, after which you could have the infant boomers and the infant boomers are retiring. So possibly they need a part-time job, however definitely not full-time. And you then’ve bought millennials which might be forming households. And for those who, for those who take a look at the price of daycare, um, you, you might want to be working and making some huge cash and dealing a number of hours to cowl the price of daycare. So lots of people who’re simply have gotten a number of, you realize, they’re forming households, they’ve younger children, possibly they simply wanna work whereas their children are at school, you realize, and, and part-time. So I, once more, I don’t assume it’s something to fret about. It simply is smart.

Dave:
Yeah, I I believe there’s a, a mixture of things which might be resulting in this and a few of them is individuals who can’t make ends meet with a full-time job. And that stinks, proper? Such as you would count on and hope that individuals, um, who work full-time are capable of earn a residing. Um, so that’s possibly a, a one in all a nasty signal for the US economic system, um, usually. That that’s one class. I believe there’s one other class right here. While you take a look at a number of the information, it’s people who find themselves, and, and that is the larger classes, people who find themselves opting to work part-time and there’s classes inside classes right here. So a few of these persons are simply getting a facet hustle ’trigger they wish to earn extra. I, I’ve definitely completed this previously. Um, I’ve had multiple job, um, and uh, attempt to get further revenue to put money into actual property or to do no matter.
And so persons are nonetheless persevering with to do this. And one of many good components of the American economic system, I believe is that it’s simpler to do a facet hustle now I believe, than it ever has. And so I do assume that’s in all probability one of many causes we’re beginning to see these numbers tick up. Um, a 3rd form of bucket is precisely what Kathy mentioned is like some individuals, and I believe this accelerated throughout COVID simply determined that possibly they don’t wanna work part-time. They wanna, you realize, work halftime, whether or not it’s elevating children or maybe they’re labored actually onerous of their profession to get forward and now they’re like, you realize what, I may simply work 20 hours every week or 30 hours every week. In order that’s one. After which the final class, which I hadn’t actually thought of however I appeared into the information right here, is that there are hundreds of thousands of people who find themselves pressured to work part-time as a result of their employers lower their hours.
And so that’s one other group that I believe that could be a little bit regarding for the economic system. Like for those who, if employers are beginning, you realize, possibly we’re not seeing these, uh, unfavourable outcomes mirrored in a number of the unemployment numbers or a number of the, the, uh, labor statistics. But when that’s occurring, that does present a cooling economic system. However general, um, even whenever you add all these issues up, like the quantity of people who find themselves working part-time as a result of they’re pressured to is definitely actually low in comparison with historic charges. And so, sure, to me, I don’t assume it is a unfavourable signal for the economic system simply but, but when these numbers begin to tick up, then I believe it’s one thing to concentrate to.

Kathy:
This explicit article, it says, oh yeah, we’ve job, you realize, the variety of jobs has come down dramatically. Nicely that could be a very, excellent factor. Individuals <chuckle>. So you need to perceive like, what’s the context right here? We had too many roles, like 12 million job openings and now we’re down to love eight, or I believe it went as much as 9. So I don’t see it as a problem with the economic system. There’s nonetheless 9 million job openings, <chuckle>, proper? Yeah, yeah.

Dave:
Proper. So I believe usually talking, individuals usually ask me about labor market information and job information. And it’s not for the faint of coronary heart. There isn’t any one good labor market information supply. Such as you type of have to have a look at a number of ’em Yeah. To get a generalized image of what’s happening. Like unemployment charge needs to be a straightforward quantity, proper? It’s not, it’s lacking a number of stuff. It contains a number of stuff. Take a look at unemployment insurance coverage or job openings or the labor power participation charge. There’s all this stuff. So I might warning individuals in opposition to simply one headline or one information supply for those who actually wanna perceive what’s happening within the labor market and possibly both observe somebody who actually understands it very well or look into quite a lot of sources to try to get a extra holistic image about what’s happening. ’trigger these, these single information factors don’t actually offer you a full sufficient image to make investing selections off of.

Kathy:
Completely. Yep.

Dave:
Okay, we’re about to get into our final and spiciest query, however earlier than we do it, now we have to take yet another fast break. And through that break, for those who recognize getting financial information that’s related to you as an investor proper right here on this podcast, go forward and push the observe button so that you by no means miss an episode. We’ll be proper again. Hey everybody, and welcome again to Larger Information. I’m right here with Kathy Fettke. Up to now we’ve lined rates of interest, inflation and the labor market. Let’s get again into it. All proper, for our final query at this time, it’s a discussion board submit from the BiggerPockets boards. It mentioned, oh God, that is everybody at all times blaming millennials. The query is, are millennials in charge for retaining housing costs excessive? Millennials are the largest demographic cohort ever they usually’re simply getting into prime residence, shopping for age <chuckle>. So Kathy, I’m a millennial, so I’m gonna give a really biased reply right here, however you’re not, so what’s your tackle this?

Kathy:
I simply wanna say I simply love you all on the market and I’m sorry for all these headlines that you realize. Thanks. Child boomers bought it too. So, you realize, who’s in charge is the individuals who didn’t see 30 years in the past that this was the most important child growth, proper? We had, we already had a child growth from the prior era and, and the infant boomers are known as that as a result of there was a number of them they usually affected the economic system, proper? As quickly as they went to school, each, you realize, then it was onerous to get into faculty and and so forth. So we already knew what it’s wish to have this python, you realize, this, um, you realize, what, what am I making an attempt? Elephant throughout the python, you realize, going via the system. Yeah, precisely. It impacts it. And, um, so to organize the powers that be ought to have been considering, wow, this group goes to be at residence shopping for age at age 30, maybe we must always have some housing accessible for them.
That didn’t occur. And, after which there was a number of thought, effectively, all these child boomers are gonna be lifeless by then, so there’ll be loads of housing that that story’s nonetheless going round. However they, they did not imagine, you realize, to study that hey, child boomers are literally actually wholesome, more healthy than every other era and residing a very long time. In order that’s not occurring. So I blame the powers that be which have made it very troublesome to deliver on new housing provide. And since at actual wealth, we’re builders, and I do know I cope with this every day of how troublesome and costly it’s to deliver on new provide. I’m gonna blame regulation, you realize, <chuckle>, I’m going there. Millennials, you go kind your households, purchase a home and ignore the headlines. <chuckle>.

Dave:
Yeah, I completely agree with you. And in a method, this particular person is true as a result of millennials are an enormous think about why housing costs are so excessive and so unaffordable proper now. However the phrase blame I believe is possibly somewhat bit off as a result of it’s not like millennials made some determination that different generations haven’t made. Like everybody desires to purchase a house, at the least in American society, you realize, most People wish to purchase a house someplace between the ages of about 29 and 35. Yeah. And proper now the largest demographic group in america is between 29 and 35. So, like Kathy mentioned, it doesn’t take some statistical genius or some good prediction to know that like we had been gonna see a number of demand for housing over the past couple of years. And so that’s actually essential. And I, I believe what Kathy mentioned is basically additionally true is that for years individuals have been predicting that it will be offset by the quote unquote silver tsunami, which <chuckle> is that this time period that was coined that mainly mentioned that individuals, you realize, boomers could be reaching retirement age, they’d be eager to downsize, they’d be, you realize, dying off.
I do know that’s morbid, however it’s a truth of life. Um, and although that will liberate housing, however that’s not occurring. Individuals are residing longer. And we had been seeing a very similar to method, method increased proportion of individuals selecting to age in place, which signifies that they wish to keep of their current houses and never go to both, you realize, an, uh, assisted care facility right into a nursing residence, no matter it’s. Um, and so that’s taking over extra stock. So are millennials in charge? No, I believe it’s this entire complicated demographics and societal factor, however is the demographics of how large the millennial era is an enormous issue. Yeah, completely.

Kathy:
You recognize, I believe if we’re gonna play the blame recreation, we must always blame the boomers for having youngsters <chuckle>. Yeah.

Dave:
It’s not like we selected to get born once we,

Kathy:
That wasn’t, that was my determination.

Dave:
<chuckle>, that’s my dad and mom’ fault

Kathy:
Precisely. Responsible the boomers. However

Dave:
I do assume that that is form of, it, it’s an excellent factor to consider as a result of it does in my thoughts, present a tailwind for housing costs for the following a number of years at the least. And I do get lots of people asking like, okay, so when the, the millennials transfer via, does that imply that housing costs are gonna tank to me that, you realize, I I believe there’s a likelihood that we see much less speedy appreciation as a result of we’ll see like a, a a relative decline in demand. However that doesn’t imply that like all these millennials who simply tried actually onerous for many years to purchase a home are hastily gonna begin promoting them. You recognize, by most estimates now we have a, a scarcity of someplace between three and seven million housing items in america. Um, and, uh, you realize, there are a number of causes to imagine there’s gonna be sustained ranges of demand relative to the quantity of provide that now we have out there.

Kathy:
Yeah. And for those who’re frightened about that, then you really want to concentrate to, once more, the what drives housing. And there may very well be locations the place they overbuilt and there may very well be locations the place they’re not encouraging job progress. And in these areas the place they might be overbuilt they usually’re not making it they usually’re not job pleasant, there may very well be an actual softening in costs. Similar to we noticed a softening within the San Francisco Bay space in, um, in rents, uh, as individuals had been type of capable of work remotely and, and stay someplace cheaper. So I simply to guard myself from that risk, I’m at all times ensuring I’m investing in an space the place there’s sturdy job progress and inhabitants progress, however they, they’re not on the trail of overbuilding.

Dave:
All proper. Nicely, this was enjoyable, Kathy, I, this I recognize you becoming a member of us for our first ever person generated person query present on the larger information phase of the BiggerPockets podcast. That’s, that could be a mouthful. We’re gonna need to work on that one. You probably did

Kathy:
Nicely, that was good. <chuckle>

Dave:
<chuckle>, thanks. It was, it was actually troublesome. Thanks. <chuckle> <chuckle>. Alright, effectively thanks once more Kathy, and thanks all for listening. We actually recognize you. And simply as a reminder, if you wish to have your query answered on the BiggerPockets podcast, simply go to biggerpockets.com/boards, ask a query. It’ll hopefully be answered by lots of people in our neighborhood, however there’s an opportunity that me, Kathy, or one of many different podcast hosts shall be answering your query proper right here on this podcast For BiggerPockets. I’m Dave Meyer. She’s Kathy Fettke, and we’ll see you quickly.